") no-repeat center center;background-size:10px 16px;content:' '}@media(min-width:768px){.egqDdf::before{display:none}}@media(min-width:1000px){.iZGsHB .taboola{display:none}}.iZGsHB:has(#taboola-carousel-thumbnails){min-height:426px}.iZGsHB:has(#taboola-mid-article-thumbnails-crime){min-height:405px}@media(min-width:1000px){.iZGsHB:has(#taboola-carousel-thumbnails),.iZGsHB:has(#taboola-mid-article-thumbnails-crime){min-height:0}}.fLVhoJ .tp-container-inner,.fLVhoJ .sc-1suqprf-0{position:relative;box-shadow:0 -22px 16px 22px rgba(255,255,255,0.95);box-shadow:0 -22px 16px 22px light-dark(rgba(255,255,255,0.95),rgba(0,0,0,0.95))}.fLVhoJ.closed{display:none}.hVIqlZ{width:32px}.hVIqlZ,.hVIqlZ:focus{color:#627aac;color:light-dark(#627aac,#627aac)}.hVIqlZ:hover,.hVIqlZ:active,.hVIqlZ:focus-visible{color:#9cabcb;color:light-dark(#9cabcb,#9cabcb)}@media(min-width:768px){.hVIqlZ.mobile-only{display:none}}.bnFTrl{width:32px}.bnFTrl,.bnFTrl:focus{color:#4e4e4e;color:light-dark(#4e4e4e,#4e4e4e)}.bnFTrl:hover,.bnFTrl:active,.bnFTrl:focus-visible{color:#919191;color:light-dark(#919191,#919191)}@media(min-width:768px){.bnFTrl.mobile-only{display:none}}.dtuElZ{width:32px}.dtuElZ,.dtuElZ:focus{color:#25d366;color:light-dark(#25d366,#25d366)}.dtuElZ:hover,.dtuElZ:active,.dtuElZ:focus-visible{color:#66e093;color:light-dark(#66e093,#66e093)}@media(min-width:768px){.dtuElZ.mobile-only{display:none}}.geQZNt{width:32px}.geQZNt,.geQZNt:focus{color:#ec1a2e;color:light-dark(#ec1a2e,#ec1a2e)}.geQZNt:hover,.geQZNt:active,.geQZNt:focus-visible{color:#f58992;color:light-dark(#f58992,#f58992)}@media(min-width:768px){.geQZNt.mobile-only{display:none}}.fMVKDn{display:flex;gap:12px}.kHbRaW .sc-17yxc4y-0{display:none}.kHbRaW:hover .sc-17yxc4y-0,.kHbRaW.bookmark-button-saved .sc-17yxc4y-0{display:block}.kHbRaW:hover .sc-17yxc4y-1,.kHbRaW.bookmark-button-saved .sc-17yxc4y-1{display:none}.kHbRaW.bookmark-button-saved .sc-17yxc4y-0{display:block}.kHbRaW.bookmark-button-saved .sc-17yxc4y-1{display:none}.kHbRaW.bookmark-button-saved:hover .sc-17yxc4y-0{display:none}.kHbRaW.bookmark-button-saved:hover .sc-17yxc4y-1{display:block}.LrqJk{display:inline-block;width:32px;height:32px;color:#70a5a7;color:light-dark(#70a5a7,#70a5a7)}.gsHIni{display:flex;flex-direction:row;justify-content:center;gap:12px}.jTEZjg{display:flex;position:relative;justify-content:center}@media(min-width:768px){.jTEZjg{justify-content:flex-end;padding-top:12px;margin:0}}.laxBOB{display:flex}.sticky .laxBOB{flex-direction:column}.hDXmfN{overflow:hidden;height:23px;margin-bottom:8px;border-bottom:0;clear:both}@media(min-width:768px){.hDXmfN{height:25px}}.jGyHqZ{display:inline-block;flex-shrink:0;margin:0 12px 0 0;font:bold 14px/normal 'Indy Sans','Indy Sans Fallback',sans-serif}.jGyHqZ::after{content:':'}.bsdbXr{display:inline-block;margin-right:12px;margin-bottom:4px;color:#222;color:light-dark(#222,#fff);font:normal 14px/1.29 'Indy Sans','Indy Sans Fallback',sans-serif;text-decoration:underline}.bsdbXr::first-letter {text-transform:capitalize}@media(min-width:1000px){.subscribed .eWQiqu{margin-top:-184px}.article-feature:not(.article-feature-video) .subscribed .eWQiqu{margin-top:-407px}}.eWQiqu>p{margin:16px 0}.article-premium .eWQiqu>p{line-height:27px}.eWQiqu>h2{font-size:21px}.article-climate .eWQiqu>h2{color:#ec1a2e;color:light-dark(#ec1a2e,#ec1a2e)}.article-sgi .eWQiqu>h2{color:#ec1a2e;color:light-dark(#ec1a2e,#ec1a2e)}.eWQiqu>p:first-child{margin-top:0}.eWQiqu span:first-child~p:first-of-type{margin-top:0}.gCqUwG{display:flex;position:relative;max-width:100%;min-height:600px;justify-content:center;margin:0 auto;background-color:transparent;clear:both}@media(min-width:1000px){.gCqUwG{min-height:450px}}.teads .gCqUwG{display:block}.gCqUwG [data-mpu]{position:sticky;top:16px}.bnnSMt{display:inline-block;flex-shrink:0;border-radius:50%;background:#ec1a2e;background:light-dark(#ec1a2e,#ec1a2e);color:#fff;color:light-dark(#fff,#fff)}.dyOTMk{display:flex;width:100%;box-sizing:border-box;margin:0 0 16px;border:1px solid #d3d3d3;border:1px solid light-dark(#d3d3d3,#919191)}.ctojrZ{box-sizing:border-box;flex:1;padding:12px 16px 12px 12px}@media(min-width:595px){.ctojrZ{padding-bottom:8px}}.eSMJoa{width:135px}.eSMJoa img{object-fit:cover}@media(max-width:594px){.eSMJoa{display:none}}.hQdxjk{display:flex;align-items:center;gap:28px}.hyDlTi{margin:0;color:#222;color:light-dark(#222,#fff)}.jbHTit{display:none;font:bold 16px/19.2px 'Indy Serif','Indy Serif Fallback',serif}@media(min-width:595px){.jbHTit{display:block}}.enAvqf{font:bold 20px/24px 'Indy Serif','Indy Serif Fallback',serif}@media(min-width:595px){.enAvqf{display:none}}.bOSXQc{display:none;font:bold 20px/24px 'Indy Serif','Indy Serif Fallback',serif}.bSxdBx{display:none}.fBEvvh{align-self:flex-start;margin-left:auto}.tuUlp{display:flex;gap:16px;margin-top:4px}.nkzAb{--input-height:38px;width:100%;margin:0}.nkzAb label,.nkzAb label+span{position:absolute;overflow:hidden;width:.01em;height:.01em;padding:0;border:0;clip:rect(0,0,0,0);white-space:nowrap}.gJJjCf{height:38px;margin:8px 0 16px}.gUEecR{--color:#646464;--check-border-color:#919191}@supports(color:light-dark(red,red)){.gUEecR{--color:light-dark(#646464,#bdbdbd)}}@supports(color:light-dark(red,red)){.gUEecR{--check-border-color:light-dark(#919191,#646464)}}.cVnlb{margin-block:0;font:normal 9px/13px 'Indy Sans','Indy Sans Fallback',sans-serif}.bXaOEb{display:flex;min-height:600px;justify-content:center}@media(min-width:1000px){.bXaOEb{min-height:450px}}.dlrgtE{min-height:600px}@media(min-width:1000px){.dlrgtE{min-height:450px}}.dlrgtE.mobile-only{display:block}@media(min-width:1000px){.dlrgtE.mobile-only{display:none}}.dlrgtE.desktop-only{display:none}@media(min-width:1000px){.dlrgtE.desktop-only{display:block;margin-bottom:16px}}.dlrgtE.desktop-only+p{margin-top:0}.dlrgtE .third-party-ad{position:sticky;top:16px}.fhuRbW{width:100%;flex-grow:1}.fhuRbW .social-share{width:100%;padding-top:10px;padding-bottom:20px}@media(min-width:768px){.fhuRbW .social-share{justify-content:flex-start}}.fhuRbW .social-share.sticky{display:none}@media(min-width:1000px){.fhuRbW .social-share.sticky{display:flex;position:sticky;top:14px;width:34px;flex-direction:column;padding-top:0;margin-top:0;margin-left:-25%}.fhuRbW .social-share.sticky .sc-mgcah7-0{margin:0 0 16px}.article-feature-video .fhuRbW .social-share.sticky{margin-top:0}.article-feature:not(.article-feature-video) .fhuRbW .social-share.sticky{margin-top:35%}}.fhuRbW.sponsored-article img,.fhuRbW.sponsored-article video{width:100%;max-width:602px;height:auto}.fhuRbW.sponsored-article iframe{max-width:602px;max-height:400px}.fhuRbW .under-article-prompt-donations{padding-bottom:8px;margin-top:-3px}.fhuRbW .big-letter{--color:#222;display:flex;position:relative;width:0;height:0;align-items:center;justify-content:center;padding:40px;margin-top:22px;margin-right:12px;border:1px solid var(--color);float:left;font:normal 52px/1 'Indy Serif','Indy Serif Fallback',serif;text-transform:uppercase}.fhuRbW .big-letter:first-child{margin-top:6px}.fhuRbW .big-letter::before{position:absolute;top:0;left:0;width:100%;height:100%;box-sizing:border-box;border:1px solid var(--color);border-radius:50%;content:''}.fhuRbW #taboola-below-article-1{min-height:2350px}@media(min-width:768px){.fhuRbW #taboola-below-article-1{min-height:3370px}}.fhuRbW #taboola-below-article-1-split-num-1{min-height:130px}@media(min-width:768px){.fhuRbW #taboola-below-article-1-split-num-1{min-height:415px}}.fhuRbW .sc-fwko30-0+.sc-1xtsh2b-0{margin-top:-16px}@media(min-width:768px){.fhuRbW{max-width:636px;margin:0}}@media(min-width:1000px){.fhuRbW{max-width:624px;margin:0}.fhuRbW.subscribed{max-width:636px}}@media(max-width:999px){.fhuRbW{padding-right:0}.fhuRbW .under-article-prompt-donations{margin-top:-18px}}.fhuRbW .anchor-nav-header{scroll-margin-top:79px}.fhuRbW .anchor-nav-header a{color:#222;color:light-dark(#222,#fff)}.fhuRbW .anchor-nav-header a:hover{color:#222;color:light-dark(#222,#fff)}@supports(color:light-dark(red,red)){.fhuRbW .big-letter{--color:light-dark(#222,#fff)}}.cWTNvs{display:flex;flex-wrap:wrap;justify-content:flex-start;margin-bottom:8px;color:#fff;color:light-dark(#fff,#bdbdbd);font:normal 16px/20px 'Indy Sans','Indy Sans Fallback',sans-serif}@media(min-width:768px){.cWTNvs{width:70%;align-items:center;justify-content:flex-start;margin-bottom:0;font:normal 16px/24px 'Indy Sans','Indy Sans Fallback',sans-serif}}@media(min-width:1000px){.cWTNvs{width:70%;margin-bottom:0}}.hWBwna{display:flex;height:20px;margin:0 12px 8px 0}.article-voices .hWBwna{height:auto}@media(min-width:425px){.article-voices .hWBwna{height:20px}}.hWBwna::before{display:inline-block;align-self:center;margin-top:1px;margin-right:12px;content:'\2022';transform:scale(1.5)}.hWBwna:first-child::before{content:none}@media(min-width:768px){.hWBwna{height:24px;margin-bottom:0}.hWBwna::before{margin-top:2px}}.hWBwna time{display:block}.hWBwna time::first-letter {text-transform:capitalize}.iJtxXk{display:inline-block;margin:0 12px 8px 0;color:#ef4757;color:light-dark(#ef4757,#ec1a2e);font:bold 16px/20px 'Indy Sans','Indy Sans Fallback',sans-serif;letter-spacing:-0.5px}.iJtxXk:hover,.iJtxXk:active{color:#f58992;color:light-dark(#f58992,#ac2a2c)}@media(min-width:768px){.iJtxXk{margin-bottom:0}}.euvwNP{margin:0 4px 8px 0}.euvwNP::before{display:inline-block;margin-top:2px;margin-right:12px;color:#fff;color:light-dark(#fff,#bdbdbd);content:'\2022';transform:scale(1.5)}.euvwNP:first-child::before{display:none}@media(min-width:768px){.euvwNP{margin-bottom:0}}.fkbzZm{display:flex;justify-content:flex-start;padding:0;margin:0 0 16px}@media(min-width:768px){.fkbzZm{display:flex;width:30%;align-items:center;justify-content:flex-end;margin:0}}@media(min-width:1000px){.fkbzZm{width:30%}}.eTZxgZ{padding-top:0;border-top:0;border-bottom:0}@media(min-width:768px){.eTZxgZ{display:flex;flex-flow:row wrap;padding-bottom:16px}.eTZxgZ .sc-mzrbq8-0{order:1}.eTZxgZ .sc-mzrbq8-6{order:2}}@media(min-width:1000px){.eTZxgZ{flex-direction:row}}.eIJMuy{padding:16px 12px 12px;text-align:left;font:bold 14px/18px 'Indy Sans','Indy Sans Fallback',sans-serif}@media(min-width:768px){.eIJMuy{padding:16px 16px 12px}}.article-infact .eIJMuy{padding:16px 0}@media(min-width:1000px){.eIJMuy{padding:24px 0 19px}.article-feature .eIJMuy{max-width:968px;margin:0 auto}}.eIJMuy a{color:#fff;color:light-dark(#fff,#fff)}.eIJMuy a:hover{color:#f58992;color:light-dark(#f58992,#f58992)}.eIJMuy a:hover::after{color:#fff;color:light-dark(#fff,#fff)}.eIJMuy a::after{margin-right:4px;margin-left:4px;content:'>'}.eIJMuy a:last-child::after{display:none}.hMldFc{margin:0 0 20px;letter-spacing:0}.cFDphy{margin:0;color:#fff;color:light-dark(#fff,#bdbdbd);font:normal 16px/20px 'Indy Sans','Indy Sans Fallback',sans-serif}@media(min-width:768px){.cFDphy{font:normal 18px/22px 'Indy Sans','Indy Sans Fallback',sans-serif}}@media(min-width:1000px){.cFDphy{font:normal 20px/24px 'Indy Sans','Indy Sans Fallback',sans-serif}}.cFDphy p{font:inherit}.article-feature .cFDphy a{font-weight:bold}.gHvZoJ{max-width:968px;margin:0 auto;background:#222;background:light-dark(#222,#000)}@media(min-width:1000px){.gHvZoJ{padding:0 16px}.parallax .gHvZoJ{max-width:1240px}}.Rdknw{font:bold 32px/36px 'Indy Serif','Indy Serif Fallback',serif;letter-spacing:-0.0156em}@media(min-width:768px){.Rdknw{font:bold 44px/48px 'Indy Serif','Indy Serif Fallback',serif;letter-spacing:-0.0113em}}@media(min-width:1000px){.Rdknw{font:bold 54px/58px 'Indy Serif','Indy Serif Fallback',serif;letter-spacing:-0.0092em}}.cKuFPu{background:#222;background:light-dark(#222,#000)}.cKuFPu .sc-qvufca-1{max-width:968px;background:#222;background:light-dark(#222,#000)}.cKuFPu .sc-qvufca-0{margin:0}@media(max-width:999px){.cKuFPu .sc-qvufca-0{margin:0 12px 0}}.cKuFPu .sc-qvufca-2,.cKuFPu .sc-aeekvc-0{color:#fff;color:light-dark(#fff,#fff)}.cKuFPu .sc-qvufca-2{margin:0 0 20px}.cKuFPu .sc-aeekvc-0{margin-bottom:16px}@keyframes slidedown-video{from{transform:translateY(-100%)}to{transform:translateY(0)}}@keyframes slideup-video{from{transform:translateY(200%)}to{transform:translateY(0)}}.lnSWRM .video-top-container-inner{position:relative}.lnSWRM .video-popout-close{display:none}.lnSWRM .video-hero-wrapper-inner{display:block}.lnSWRM .video-hero-video{width:100%;margin:0;transition:height .2s}.lnSWRM .video-hero-wrapper.sticky-video{position:fixed;top:95px;width:400px;margin-left:-332px;transition:margin-left .3s,top .3s .1s}.lnSWRM .video-top-container.video.sticky:not(.closed) .video-hero-video{position:static;right:0;left:auto;width:100%}.lnSWRM .video-top-container.video.sticky:not(.closed) .video-hero-video.liveblog{margin-left:-12px}@media(min-width:768px){.lnSWRM .video-top-container.video.sticky:not(.closed) .video-hero-video{position:absolute;width:400px}}@media(min-width:1000px){.lnSWRM .video-top-container.video.sticky:not(.closed) .video-hero-video{top:94px;right:-56px}.lnSWRM .video-top-container.video.sticky:not(.closed) .video-hero-video.liveblog{right:-400px}}.lnSWRM .video-top-container.video.sticky:not(.closed) .video-hero-video .video-sticky-video{position:fixed;top:0;left:auto;z-index:9;width:100%;background-color:#fff;background-color:light-dark(#fff,#000);box-shadow:0 0 40px 10px rgba(0,0,0,0.5);box-shadow:0 0 40px 10px light-dark(rgba(0,0,0,0.5),rgba(0,0,0,0.5))}@media(min-width:768px){.lnSWRM .video-top-container.video.sticky:not(.closed) .video-hero-video .video-sticky-video{width:400px;animation:slidedown-video .4s}}@media(min-width:1000px){.lnSWRM .video-top-container.video.sticky:not(.closed) .video-hero-video .video-sticky-video{top:auto;bottom:0;animation:slideup-video .4s}}.lnSWRM .video-top-container.video.sticky:not(.closed) .video-popout-close{display:none;width:100%;box-sizing:border-box;align-items:center;justify-content:flex-end;padding:4px 8px 3px;color:#222;color:light-dark(#222,#fff);cursor:pointer;font-family:'Indy Sans','Indy Sans Fallback',sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-height:14px}@media(min-width:1000px){.lnSWRM .video-top-container.video.sticky:not(.closed) .video-popout-close{justify-content:flex-start}}.lnSWRM .video-top-container.video.sticky:not(.closed) .video-popout-close::after{display:flex;align-items:center;padding-left:4px;content:'\2715';font-size:12px}.lnSWRM .video-top-container.video.sticky:not(.closed) .video-popout-close.shown{display:flex}.dDZARA{max-width:100%}.dbXKIp{position:relative}.zSKmx{position:relative;width:100%;padding-top:56.25%;background:#000;background:light-dark(#000,#000)}.kTLXBP{display:flex;position:absolute;top:0;left:0;width:100%;height:100%;align-items:center;justify-content:center}.kBMMvo{width:10%}.dvUxMP.fullscreen{position:fixed;top:0;left:0;z-index:3000000000;width:100%;height:100%;background:#000;background:light-dark(#000,#000)}.dvUxMP .closebtn{display:none;position:absolute;top:0;right:0;width:100px;height:100px}.dvUxMP .closebtn.show{display:block}.dvUxMP .btn{position:absolute;top:5px;right:5px;width:25px;height:25px;color:#fff;color:light-dark(#fff,#222);font-family:helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:20px;line-height:25px;text-align:center}.bpXajI{max-width:100%;clear:both}.iExVwO{overflow:hidden;height:0;color:transparent}.VkEbW{max-width:100%;margin:0 0 20px}.VkEbW.sticky{position:sticky;top:16px}.jpuEXf{min-height:600px}.jpuEXf #mpu1,.jpuEXf #sidebar1{position:sticky;top:16px}.bIVNVq{min-height:250px}.dcXsiQ{max-width:100%}.loNRDw{margin:0 0 6px;color:#646464;color:light-dark(#646464,#bdbdbd);font-family:'Indy Sans','Indy Sans Fallback',sans-serif;font-size:15px}.ezMsnK{margin:0 0 12px}.iIPWMQ{height:380px}.gXoWZo{width:100%;height:51px}.hjNIYD{margin-bottom:16px;border-bottom:1px solid #919191;border-bottom:1px solid light-dark(#919191,#646464)}.vzWDo{margin-bottom:16px}.vzWDo [role='listitem']{position:relative;margin-bottom:12px;border-bottom:1px solid #d3d3d3;border-bottom:1px solid light-dark(#d3d3d3,#919191)}.vzWDo [role='listitem'] .sc-u4n1j-0{display:flex;position:absolute;bottom:16px;left:10px;width:32px;height:32px;align-items:center;justify-content:center;border-radius:50%;background-color:#ec1a2e;background-color:light-dark(#ec1a2e,#ec1a2e)}.vzWDo [role='listitem'] .sc-u4n1j-0>svg{width:90%;fill:#fff;fill:light-dark(#fff,#000);stroke:transparent}.vzWDo [role='listitem']:first-child{display:block;padding-bottom:0;margin-bottom:12px}.vzWDo [role='listitem']:first-child .sc-u4n1j-0{top:-15px;bottom:auto;left:12px}.vzWDo [role='listitem']:first-child>*:first-child{display:block;width:100%;height:205px}.vzWDo [role='listitem']:first-child>*:last-child{--content-bg:#222;--content-bg-opaque:rgba(34,34,34,0.7);position:absolute;bottom:0;width:100%;padding:28px 12px 12px;background:linear-gradient(to top,var(--content-bg) 70%,var(--content-bg-opaque) 100%) no-repeat;color:#fff;color:light-dark(#fff,#222);font-size:17px;font-weight:bold}.vzWDo [role='listitem']:last-child{margin-bottom:0;border-bottom:0 none}@supports(color:light-dark(red,red)){.vzWDo [role='listitem']:first-child>*:last-child{--content-bg:light-dark(#222,#000)}}@supports(color:light-dark(red,red)){.vzWDo [role='listitem']:first-child>*:last-child{--content-bg-opaque:light-dark(rgba(34,34,34,0.7),rgba(0,0,0,0.7))}}.clClJO{min-height:1924px}@media(max-width:767px){.clClJO{display:none}}.doEDPw{width:308px}.doEDPw.hidden{display:none}@media(max-width:999px){.doEDPw{display:none}}.article-liveblog .ebbjSB{background-color:#f7f7f7;background-color:light-dark(#f7f7f7,#222)}.ghFVC{justify-content:center}.clCHwE{justify-content:center}
Culture Film News James Cameron’s Avatar gamble pays off as Way of Water becomes 10th biggest film of all time It’s showing no signs of slowing, either
Avatar: The Way of Water teaser trailer drops online
Sign up to our free IndyArts newsletter for all the latest entertainment news and reviews Sign up to our free IndyArts newsletter Sign up to our free IndyArts newsletter James Cameron ’s Avatar gamble has paid off in an extremely big way following its latest box office feat.
The film, which was released on 16 December, is a follow-up to the 2009 original, which is the highest-grossing film of all time with a gross of $2.9bn (£2.45bn). This includes re-release sales.
Cameron has made no secret of the fact that he needed the film, titled Avatar: The Way of Water , to be a huge success – especially considering there are four sequels in the works.
While the director claimed that the film needed to become the fifth highest-grossing film of all time to break even, Variety reported that he was embellishing and that the release would begin to make a profit once it hit an international gross of $1.5bn (£1.264bn).
However, extraordinarily, this feat is not far off – after just 23 days, it has become the 10th biggest film of all time.
On Thursday (5 January), the film’s box office total sat at $1.516bn (£1.278bn).
With the latest profits added, the film has sailed past Top Gun: Maverick , which was the biggest film released in 2022. That feat now officially belongs to the Avatar 2 .
If the film’s success continues, which it seems likely to do, the film will carry on up the list of biggest films ever to become one of the five highest-grossing releases of all time.
'Avatar: The Way of Water’ has been a box office smash (20th Century Studios) This means that Cameron’s films would account for three of the top five alongside the first Avatar and Titanic (1997).
Currently rounding out the top five are Avengers: Infinity War and Avengers Endgame , which were released in 2019 and 2020, respectively, and Star Wars: The Force Awakens .
Watch Apple TV+ free for 7 day
New subscribers only. £8.99/mo. after free trial. Plan auto-renews until cancelled.
Try for free ADVERTISEMENT. If you sign up to this service we will earn commission. This revenue helps to fund journalism across The Independent.
Watch Apple TV+ free for 7 day
New subscribers only. £8.99/mo. after free trial. Plan auto-renews until cancelled.
Try for free ADVERTISEMENT. If you sign up to this service we will earn commission. This revenue helps to fund journalism across The Independent.
All of these totals are unadjusted for inflation. Taking that into account, the biggest film of all time remains 1939’s Gone with the Wind .
Thank you for registering Please refresh the page or navigate to another page on the site to be automatically logged in Please refresh your browser to be logged in
Join our commenting forum
Join thought-provoking conversations, follow other Independent readers and see their replies
Comments